Subject: Re: Anti-cheat pseudocode for your roguelike :) Sender: R Dan Henry Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:54:58 GMT Newsgroup: rec.games.roguelike.development On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:07:56 +0200, in a fit of madness Timo Viitanen declared: >R Dan Henry wrote: >> On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:38:27 +1100, in a fit of madness "Michael >> Blackney" declared: >>>I think they probably mean items with durability like swords and armour >>>that need consistent maintenance. *This* is a pretty crappy feature (IMO) >>>in most games and adds tedium. >> In the same way that having wands run out of charges and requiring >> recharging adds tedium. >> There's no difference in principle. It's possible to have poor >> implementations of weapon and armor damage, but that's no reason to >> dislike the feature as such. The "armor has 5000 points and each hit >> takes off 1-3 points or 10 if its a critical" type system is broken, >What about... umm... "The longsword has 50 points. Each successful >parry damages it as much as the parried blow would have damaged the >player. Each hit with it that is parried or deflected by armor damages >it by half the amount that a successful hit would have done to enemy. > From any damage to the sword, 20 points, the sword's durability value, >is substracted so only expectional hits can actually damage it. When >half of the points are gone, there is a warning message so that the >player knows to take the sword to a blacksmith. There are ways to >improve an item's durability or even magically render it invincible." > >Is this broken? :) Not necessarily broken, but I don't care for it. Normal use doesn't damage a decent weapon. Exceptional circumstances damage a weapon quickly. The only real "wearing down" sort of effect is the dulling of an edge and if you auto-sharpen during resting, that shouldn't be too bad to treat as a set of points. But weapon breakage should generally be a result of exceptional stress or the extreme edge of luck. Attacking a foe with superior armor (or made of a superior material for things like golems) should endanger your weapon and likewise a superior weapon should be a threat to armor. This allows for distinguishing between bronze and iron and steel and mithril weapons without any hit point inflation in the weapon damage. A slightly more complex system could allow for partial breakage stages in some cases. A "cracked" state would be especially appropriate for hafted weapons where the shaft is damaged, but not yet broken. This state would make further breakage more likely and would be easier to repair than a full break. I advocate damage/destruction of weapons, armor, etc., but not a durability that requires frequent upkeep. Some advantages to weapon breakage: 1. Authenticity. Not "realism", but trueness to the heroic tales which inspired the genre. Weapons break and heroes fall or fight on with shards, a weapon taken from a fallen comrade, even bare hands. The sword that is broken gets reforged. 2. Danger. Your cool weapon broke. Now you face a dilemma: rearm ASAP (you *did* carry a back up, right? :-) or get the heck out and come back later. Or your armor is damaged and you're vulnerable. No back up breastplate. Flee now? Decide to use your healing stock to stay in the fight? Go berserk and count on the best defense being a good offense? Try casting your "Ethereal Armor" spell? 3. Allows for different quality of weapons without increasing general offensive power. As stated above, this allows for better weapons without pushing hit point inflation. Likewise, it allows for better armor instead of pumping hit points. 4. More choices. Which do I use: bronze axe with a really great enchantment or a plain mithril axe? Power or reliability? 5. Reduces the "junk items" effect. It becomes worthwhile to have a "second-best" and perhaps a "third-best" kit carried or stowed away in case of the need for replacements. 6. Fun. Ha! The *other guy's* sword broke! He's toast now! 7. Allows for more non-combat skills with combat relevance. 8. Allows for more combat skills and enchantments. 9. Encourages non-combat breakage and use systems like Nethack's "try to force open a chest with a blade" technique. An axe should be unlikely to break while chopping down a door, but that's just abusing a sword. Swords are generally better weapons, but an axe makes a better tool. Another trade-off that can make for interesting decisions. -- R. Dan Henry rdanhenry@earthlink.net They can have my ASCII graphics when they pry them from my cold dead (c) and (d) slots.